Interviews with Chinese Tourists 01 | Taiwan's Real Protector: The Communist Party

Timid Rulers and Chinese People Who Want the World in Chaos

Giles: You just said the Communist Party actually protects Taiwan. What do you mean by that?

Lin: It’s pretty easy to understand; I reckon you white people just don’t understand Chinese people. Of all the Chinese people I’ve come across, if it’s not over 99 percent, it’s over 98 percent who want to attack Taiwan. Their slogans are things like “Keep the island, leave no one alive,” “Nuke Taiwan flat,” that sort of thing. Have you ever considered that the people in China most eager for war are the Chinese people themselves, rather than the ruling class, because the ruling class is afraid it might lose the war and lose its grip on power? I know China very well, and I’m sure the Communist Party knows these Chinese people very well too. Let me put it this way: if the Party attacked Taiwan and lost, China broke apart, and the Party lost power, those Chinese people who’d spent every day demanding an attack and swearing they were the Party’s most loyal supporters could turn around in an instant and start licking the new rulers’ toes. You think the Party doesn’t know that? Once the Party starts letting Chinese people use it, it’s not far from being finished. They feed off each other.

Giles: Is there anything in particular that really stuck with you?

Lin: When Pelosi went to Taiwan in 2022, a lot of my colleagues were really excited those few days, saying the fighting was about to start, that this time Taiwan really would be unified with China. They were getting so worked up talking about it. I still remember what they were like, because normally they seemed to have all sorts of complaints about life under the Communist Party, but once the conversation turned to attacking Taiwan, they sounded like something good was finally coming their way. You couldn’t hear any worry in their voices; they were really looking forward to attacking Taiwan, like it was going to be one of the biggest events of their lives.

Giles: Do you think they genuinely wanted a war, or were they just talking tough?

Lin: Let me put it this way: ask every Chinese person to voluntarily hand the Party 10,000 yuan to attack Taiwan, and that war definitely isn’t happening, but if the Party squeezes 100,000 yuan out of them, they won’t even notice. If you asked me to estimate how many of the people I’ve known since childhood support attacking Taiwan, I’d say 98 percent; that’s my impression. So I’ve always thought that if you let Chinese people vote tomorrow on whether to attack Taiwan, they could vote for war the very next day. I think they really do want to fight; they just have a price in mind for what they’re willing to pay.

Giles: But isn’t their desire to attack Taiwan something the Party has been teaching them all along?

Lin: Well, no shit. You’re white—haven’t you read 1984? Haven’t you read the history of the Communist world? 1984 laid all this out ages ago: Oceania, Eurasia, Eastasia, two of them are enemies today and friends tomorrow. What else would the Communist Party teach them? Actually, if you ask me, the Party isn’t nearly as committed as you people think. If its survival were on the line and it were negotiating with you white people, it could give up Taiwan, it could give up Tibet, it could give up Xinjiang too. How committed do you think these Communists really are? They’re Chinese too.

Giles: So you think what it cares about most is whether it can stay in power?

Lin: What else would it be? You think it’s like those people calling for war, who can watch the evening news, curse America and Japan a bit, then go to bed and forget about it? If the fighting actually starts, what happens if they can’t take Taiwan, what happens if the money runs out, what happens if the people under them stop taking orders, and who’s going to save them then? The Party doesn’t dare take that gamble, which makes Taiwan a little safer. That’s what I mean when I say it protects Taiwan; don’t go thinking the Party is being kind. “It isn’t that they won’t; it’s that they can’t”—that sums up the Communist Party perfectly.

Giles: If their own lives are already so difficult, why are they still looking forward to a war?

Lin: Some people want something to happen precisely because their lives are difficult; they feel there’s not much point carrying on like this, so why not shake everything up and see if they get a chance? The Party says America is holding China down and Japan is up to no good, and they repeat it, as if other people suffering would somehow give them a better life. The thing is, Chinese people really believe it. You have to understand, nobody bullies the weak and cowers before the strong like Chinese people do; telling them the truth gets you nowhere. However badly they’re living, they’ll still say nice things about their master—the Communist Party—hoping it’ll toss them a little reward. Besides, you think the Party doesn’t know what some of these people are thinking? Some are hoping that once the Party loses, they can become warlords or the new rulers themselves. Isn’t that how the Party got its own start? The Qing state fell, and the Communists made their fortunes as Soviet lackeys. Let me tell you, the Party might be useless at guarding against other people, but nobody is better at guarding against its own kind.

Giles: Do the anti-Communist people you know think this way too?

Lin: How many of them are actually anti-Communist? Let’s be honest, their lives aren’t going well, they feel the Party’s policies have hurt them, so they complain a bit; you really think they’re that committed? Never mind Chinese people in China, look at Chinese people in America who’ve become American citizens. That woman in the news recently, what’s her name, Wanying Zhang—if she loves the Communist Party, why did she go and live in your America? She moves to America and then works as a spy. I’m telling you, a lot of people who seem anti-Communist turn out not to be anti-Communist at all when it matters. I’ve seen far too many of these types.

Giles: If China genuinely became democratic, do you think Taiwanese people would want to join it?

Lin: The first thing I’d ask is, what do you mean by genuinely democratic—does holding one election count? After all these years of Communist rule, you suddenly hold a vote and expect me to believe it’ll never go back to the way it was, and why the hell should I? They used to talk about leaders picking successors a generation ahead and orderly handovers, didn’t they? Now isn’t Chairman Xi planning to stay until he dies? How can you trust a promise from the Communist Party?

Giles: Suppose those problems were resolved and elections kept happening?

Lin: Only you white people would ask something like that. Look at those Communist countries throughout history—which of them hasn’t overturned the whole arrangement, or run espionage campaigns until elections gradually came to nothing, or killed off a bunch of people? Only you white people in developed countries would believe the Communist Party could keep elections going; it’s fucking hilarious. When we were kids, the Party even told us each chairman would serve two terms, and now isn’t Chairman Xi planning to stay until he dies? Ha, only you Americans would believe what the Communist Party says. Besides, if there really were elections, China would have broken apart already. I’ve been to plenty of places in China, and the differences between provinces are fucking enormous.

Giles: So what they’re leaving out is Taiwanese people’s own choice?

Lin: Exactly, how does holding a vote in China let you settle things for Taiwanese people too? You say you’re democratic now, and they say, great, congratulations, but I still don’t want to live with you—what’s so hard to understand about that? You can’t change your government and suddenly expect me to owe you Taiwan.

Giles: What if they say Taiwan has to join no matter what?

Lin: Then just go to war and see who’s stronger, ha. I really don’t believe the Communist Party can win; if it could win, it would have attacked long ago. I’m over fifty, and I saw through Chinese people and the Communist Party a long time ago.

Giles: What if someone insists that Taiwan must belong to China regardless of what Taiwanese people choose?

Lin: Let me tell you, I’ve lived for more than half a century, and you should thank your lucky stars you’ve got this Chairman Xi right now. Those of us inside China saw through him ages ago: he acts tough but he’s a coward underneath, he’s an expert at fighting his own people and useless at fighting outsiders. What he likes and wants most is to shut the doors and do his own thing, making Chinese people’s lives miserable to keep himself in power. The way things are now is actually pretty good for Taiwan and America. So I really don’t think you need to pay much attention to what Chinese people say; do they even believe it themselves, how many of them believe it, and do the ones who believe it dare do anything? So pay them less attention. These days, I just feel that living my own life and looking after my kids is enough for me—fuck the rest of it.